iCapital.Biz Lack Of Disclosure In Their Quarterly Earnings II

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Jasonred79 said...

• But, in Icap's defence let me remind you:
  
  Caveat Emptor.
  
  If you don't like it's lack of transparency, no one is forcing you to buy it. At the end of the day, TTB is claims he is a stock market god... so as GOD, you should have FAITH and not question him! hahaha...
  
  EPF on the other hand, you are stuck with it whether you like it or not. They don't allow you to withdraw your money except under special circumstances.

Voyager8 said...

• Why no one mention that icap does disclose its NAV value fortnightly in their website as well as in bursa announcement?

That wasn't the issue was it?

I only questioned the lack of disclosure in its quarterly earnings.

Now this is a fact.

And if I am a potential investor, I would be disappointed.

And if I am an investor of the fund, I too would be disappointed.

• This should be the basis for investor to buy or sell a fund. Investor is more concerned on how well the fund is managed, rather than what stock the fund is holding.

So how does one gauge how well is the fund managed when one does not have any info (besides the once a year annual report) to gauge iCapital's performance?

Ok you want to use NAV? iCapital NAV as as at 8 April 2009 was RM1.59. A year ago, iCapital NAV as at ( see ICAPITAL.BIZ BERHAD ("icapital.biz") - NET ASSET VALUE ("NAV") PER SHARE ) 9 April 2008 was RM1.95. As per NAV, would you call this a well managed fund?

So if one wants to know why the NAV has fallen so much, where does one get the info? Use the previous (lastest) annual report? What if NAV continues to fall? Wait for the next annual report?

Is this acceptable?

Well.. for some it might be acceptable but not for me because I have ZERO idea what iCapital is holding currently that is causing the NAV to deteriorate like this.

And isn't this a good reason to have disclosure so that the minority shareholder have more information to safeguard their own investment?

• Those who are concerned on what stock the fund is holding, is very unlikely to be the fund investor, because they are too bright that they will buy the stocks direct instead of by the fund which manage the stocks.
  
  Give u a good example, remisier know every single detail of his clients' buy/sell activity. If the remisier has a very talented client, do u think that the remisier will give his money to his client to manage, or just quietly follow that client to buy/sell?
  
  If u think that Ze Moola is very good in stock picking, and he disclose every single transaction promptly to you, will u give him ur money, or u just follow him a play by urself?

Ah, please do try not to turn this personal.

I NEVER said I was good in stock picking.

All I did was question the lack of disclosure in iCapital's quarterly earnings.

I find it simply not up to standard. That's my point.

Is it wrong to raise a question?

So what's your point about dragging me into this simple issue? Why beat around the bush?

My point is simple. You can defend all you like but the fact is the lack of disclosure in iCapital's earnings is there for all to see.

• So, any good reason for icap to disclose the stock holdings frequently?

Why not?

If I invest in the fund, don't you think I deserve the right to know? Do I have to wait till the next annual report to find out?

Or what if I want to be a shareholder of this fund. Don't you think I would want to know what this fund invests in before investing?

Don't you think I would want to know more of the fund manager's perspective before investing?

And if this not good reason enough, then it's just not good enough. But for those who thinks this is lacking, perhaps this why the lack of buying interest in this fund.

-------

棕油网 wrote

• try advanced search of google , will find out more,
  
  "ICapital. Biz Berhad" "annual report" -"End Fund" -"Nong Chik" -"ELECTRONIC PROSPECTUS" -nav -"Public issue" -"teng boo" -"ICAP" -ireka -"keck seng" -"sime darby"
  
  cut the above to google.
  
  padini 4,540,000
  pohkong 2,512,500
  suria 3,000,600
  bstead 2,070,400
  haio 530,400
  integra 9,129,700
  petdag 3,300,000 ,11 May 2007
  
  but not all the details

Firstly, sorry I accidently removed your comments. Anyway thanks.

Kin Wing wrote..

• It is quite a controversial topic about how frequent an investment management firm should make a transparent disclosure for its investment holding. Maybe I could say it is a trade off in between transparency and return from the prospective investors' point of view.
  
  As you might claim that ICAP is not doing good enough to disclose its investment for those potential investors in order to make a better investment decision, but please don't forget about those existing shareholder's expectation to ICAP as well. So we can't really expect ICAP to compromise the existing shareholders' benefit for the will of the potential investors otherwise it is not fair to existing shareholders. Maybe the balance point in between existing shareholders and potential investors is to disclose the investment annually instead of quarterly.

I am curious. Why should there be a trade-off? Should the minority shareholders live with the lack of disclosure and accept what iCapital is doing is acceptable based on his reputation?

So what is iCapital's reputation?

LOL! Almost a year ago, More on iCapital Transparent Issue (you can also see iCaptal Addresses the Transparent Issue! and Feedback on iCapital's Addressing Of Its Transparent Issue!, )

Flashback...

I was forwarded their stock recommendation list as of July 2008 and I was amazed to read the following recommendations on the stocks that iCapital said it had sold.

1. United Malacca carried a HOLD recommendation.
2. UMW too carried a HOLD recommendation
3. Boustead Holdings carries a Buy/Hold recommendation.
4. Integrax carries a Hold recommendation.
....

So, it sold 1 & 2 but item 3-7 was most interesting for me.

The investment advisory reckons that these stocks stocks are worth a buy/hold but the fund management from this very same company reckons that are justifiable reasoning for the fund to dispose some of their stock holding! Don't you think that this is so contradictory?

Or what about the episode early 2008? Where iCapital tells the local media they are bullish about the market but then despite being so bullish, the fund management decided it was time to dispose some 50 million worth of stocks?

How? Based on such reputation, where the investment advisory can be calling a buy/hold on the stock but at the same time the very same fund management from the very same company sells the stock.

Well, the minority shareholder can proudly claim that iCapital is protecting the minority shareholders vested interests but what the others? What about people who listen to their investment advise? Do we call those who listen to iCapital advisory as gullible? No we can't, right?

Would it be wrong for an outsider to question the integrity of this fund? Why? The popular local saying 'cakap tak serupa bikin'.

Well, I do not know about you but would it be wrong for one to be sceptical of the fund?

Without disclosure on the buying and selling of the listed securities, could one dare say that there were absolutely zero hanky panky transactions?

• If a potential investor is really seriously want to know more than what contain in the annual report, I suggest he could buy a small number of ICAP shares (buy 1 lot of ICAP which cost no more than RM150 now but with an excessive brokerage fees...>_<) and then attend the ICAP's AGM every year. So he not only get to be informed what ICAP has invested, he could also receives quite a good lecture from Tan Teng Boo which could worth more than 1 lot of ICAP shares (assume this potential investor is naive to investment). Back to your point on the quarterly report. I’m referring to the so-called “Malaysian’s 1st Mutual Fund” (believe it or not!?), the Public Mutual series of funds only update their investment holding once a year, even Berkshire Hathaway follows this practice. So I would like to know which standard/benchmark are you referring that to disclose investment holding quarterly? Hope it is not too cavil request only to ICAP.

I am always so disappointed when there is an issue is on A, we local folks like to draw comparisons and bring out B and C as examples, to strengthen their case why the issue on A is acceptable.

Ok, let's talk about Berkshire Hathaway.

Are you so sure about Berkshire Hathaway not making public disclosure every quarter? :)

I actually refrained myself from answering you the first time round when you brought on Berkshire as an example.

Well let's try google. Try look for Berkshire's quarterly 13-F SEC filings.

Better still let me give you an example link: Some Insights from Berkshire's Latest 13-F Filing. Let me just highlight the first two lines.

• Berkshire Hathaway (brk.b.B) (brk.a.B) recently filed its quarterly 13-F statement with the Securities and Exchange Commission. The filing revealed few significant changes in the composition of the firm's equity portfolio in the fourth quarter of 2008.

How?

End of the day, iCapital.biz is a public listed closed end fund. A public listed entity. And as a public listed entity, it needs to be transparent and make public disclosures on all its transactions that might have an impact on the company's profitability.

And what would impact iCapital future prospects?

Well my flawed view is that its success depends on what it invests in. What it is buying and what it is selling.

Disclosing it once a year is simply not good enough.

This is my flawed view.