Got this nice set of comments from Bean Chun Toi (Hmmm.. just a 'new' registered blogger. :D ) on an old posting Mieco Chipboard: VIII.
- I am not a fan of TTB but I think the writer's comments are bit overdone.
I guess all fund managers make mistakes in their ivestment choices, some huge and small.
Even W Buffet lost US1 billion in an oil stock last year.
If, we you expect iCapital or TTB to make all the right investment, iCapital shares would have hit the roof at RM10 to RM20, and W Buffet's company shares would also reach sky high like Googgle shares.
I guess all of them are human and will continue to make few poor investment from time to time.
As long as more than 60% of their investment give reasonable returns, they are considered ok.
Hmm.... a bit overdone?
Could you be more precise?
Is it because I HIGHLIGHTED the fact that iCapital made such a huge loss in Axiata?
Here is a fact.
TTB claimed to be one of the top FIVE fund managers in the WORLD! He made that claim. Not me. ( here is the link to Star Biz article Up Close and Personal with Tan Teng Boo )
Just like Warren Buffett, you should realise that as long as TTB runs iCapital as a public listed entity, he and you should realise that iCapital is subject to both criticism and accolades. This is the parts and parcel for being a public listed entity. ( Try uncle Google and search for Buffett's criticism. I am sure you will find so many that you can even write a book or two. )
And have I really criticised TTB to be no good?
All I have done is question his reasoning on why he SOLD Axiata at such a huge lost. Do you know what was his exact reasoning to SELL? Sorry I do not and since iCapital's quarterly earnings did not even show any respect to the investing public by disclosing his reasoning why he sold, I do feel I have the right to address the issue by raising the question why.
Some even say wait until his next AGM or annual report.
LOL!
I find it simply ludicrous.
And in regarding to the comments made on Mieco Chipboard in today's posting, iCapital Is Now Holding A 'Paper' Loss of Over 76.5% In Its Investment In Mieco Chipboard!
Are those not facts I had posted?
Were those not legitimate questions I am raising?
Am I blasting and bashing TTB for no reason?
Are the comments a bit overdone?
If you do think so, then it's your right of opinion. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion. I have no problems, except that I think it's only fair to me that you give proper reasoning why my comments are a bit overdone.
Is it wrong to question why?
Put it this way, you see, TTB claims to be one of the TOP FIVE FUND MANAGERS IN THE WORLD ( here is the link to Star Biz article Up Close and Personal with Tan Teng Boo ), now assuming that I am interested in investing in his funds, what do you think I should do?
1. Don't you think I learn more of the person managing the fund? His integrity would be an issue, yes?
2. Don't you think I should know more of his style of investing?
Point 2. He claims to be a VALUE INVESTOR. Yes? Am I correct? And this is where iCapital's investment in Mieco Chipboard stood out very sorely.
Perhaps I am flawed but as explained in this morning's posting, iCapital Is Now Holding A 'Paper' Loss of Over 76.5% In Its Investment In Mieco Chipboard!, I really could not see the reasoning to justify Mieco as a VALUE INVESTING stock pick. When iCapital.Biz doubled their investment in this stock, Mieco was trading at a PE multiple of 41x (unless my calcutations is flawed as usual). Me? I just cannot comprehend. Sorry.
ps: in the posting iCapital Lost 14 Million In Axiata Without Explaining Why, I made the following remarks in the comments section to blogger Avatar.
- The lact of respect from the fund manger by NOT explaning what has happened with their huge loss in Axiata is utterly shocking.
It is not acceptable at all.
A fund manager is there to manage the investors money. Less the fund manager forgets that it is because of the investors the fund exist. No fund investor means no business.
The investors is their customers.
Person like me, who ask all these questions, could also be a customer.
Hence, it's paramount that the fund manger of this closed fund explains what had happened.
This is business 101.
Which is why I find that it's so unacceptable by not even attempting to explain their reason why they sold Axiata at a huge loss.
Well if they had made an investing mistake, no problem yes?
Everyone makes mistakes.
The very least iCapital can do is OWN up to this mistake and explain to the shareholders of this fund what exactly has happened.
You see, I understand everyone makes mistakes. I make mine all the time but I always try to own up to my mistakes and more importantly, I always attempt to correct my mistake.
So if iCapital made the investing mistakes in stocks like Axiata and Mieco, hey it's no problem isn't it? Just explain it to the investing public. Is this too difficult a thing for TTB to do?
Anyway, if you think my comments are overdone on iCapital on these issues, please do drop me a line. (ps. try not to register a new blogger nick just to reply to me lah. No need for such stuff. :D)
Posts
9 comments:
I seldom agree with your point, but in TTB case i agree with you. As you run a listed co (closed end fund) and as a fund manager, any decision make shall subject to query from shareholder or public as public interests.
I may suggest you , to become their s/holder and monitor their performance.
since he claim as top fund manager inthe world, should beahaviour like top 5 too.
no doubt buffet is lose in investment for last year. but u must understand that he admit what mistake he done and explain to public as need.
hope TTB do the same, answer both mieco and Axiata case. Please don't proud what you gain. shall we be responsive why we losts
Dear Moola,
by now you(as a veteran) should know the lack of understanding from the readers point of views. So, no need to justify or answer to them. It will confused them further(due to their lack of understanding).
1. Everyone is entitle to their opinions. Let them be, man.
2. We are writing in our own blog our opinions or thoughts that might provoke us. We are trying to make sense ... but again, please understand that MANY do NOT have our logics?
3. Some 'losers' will like to point out mistakes(if any) written. They might even correct our gramma(ooppsss typo) if they have nothing to point out. So, again ... ignore them.
4. When name(s) being mentioned, it might create turbulence/angin. Hence, there will surely be someone out there "em-soon-hei". So, it is like giving them a chance to speak out the nonsense which becoming nuisance.
Of coz I could see your points in Axiata and Meico ... some will still argue that it is not RM14m but RM11m or what-ever ... as if we care. We are talking about WHY cut-it-off for a steep loss? And WHY no reason(s) stated?
Many readers thought that we OWE them some answers. LOL. I see them as so shallow(ooppss ... pardon my ingeris).
I find it VERY interesting(or is it interested?) to know the "WHYs".
Let us wait for the answers ... Annual Reports? wow ... by then, I forgotten about what the issues about. Hehe
TEH
For every one of TTB, there are twenty local fund managers who are incompetent. Successful fund managers are definitely in the minority.
iCapital's performance is stellar when compared to these black holes of money called unit trusts. Many of these funds are down 60%-70%.
When I read their comments in the print media, I want to puke in the knowledge that the performance of their unit trusts are rubbish.
You should point out the incompetent fund managers/poorly performing funds for the sake of the gullible investing public.
Teh,
Thanks for your comments and I am aware.
Folks should understand that ultimately opinions will differ.
cheers!
Ronnie,
The performance of iCapital is NEVER the issue in these series of posting.
Well, some of it is overdone. Rarely does a manager explain their horrible losses. In that regards yes its overdone. but TTB is also incredibly boastful and I have subscribed to i capital and found their information less than satisfactory.
Wild predicitons to 2k on the klse. hmmmm..nope. Doesn't sound like a person I want advising or investing for me. He doesn't have much of a grip on how the world works currently, caught blindsided by the subprime crisis.
To me, if you don't have that, you can't really expect to do well as Malaysia is tied to the world and US economy at the hip.
Bursa Monitor,
Many thanks for your comments.
Do note that my comments were strictly on iCapital selling at a massive loss in its investment in Axiata.
Now I do understand that most fund managers do not even want to disclose their investing styles. That's their trade secrets.
And I also understand that many would attempt not to explain their horrible market losses.
However, iCapital is now a public entity.
It had chosen to be a public listed stock as a closed end fund.
Now since it is public, it is the duty of TTB to explain this massive losses.
And the questions raised by CP is rather spot on too.
These are the issues that need to be addressed by no one but TTB.
And needless to say, why did TTB sell Axiata when he proclaimed loudly in the media that a stock stampede is going to happen?
Didn't he contradicted himself again by selling? The investment advisor says bull but the fund manager did the selling?
By not addressing these issues publicly, it reflects so poorly on the integrity of TTB.
Waiting for annual report or annual AGM just does not cut it.
That's my flawed opinion.
As an investor, what matters most to them is returns on investments.
If TTB can outperform the market, who cares what mistakes he makes? Who cares whether he explains his decisions or not?
Whether he is right or wrong, results show that it's better to put your money with him than to invest in mutual funds, unit trusts, KLSE etf and maybe yourself??
Bottom line is Show Us The Moola!
Do you prefer a fund manager who explains all his decisions to you yet lose money consistently or one who doesn't explain anything but makes money every year??
But it's good to have ppl like you who discards the rose because of its thorns, so others can enjoy the beauty of the rose.
I tend to think your criticism on TTB is rather harsh and overdone considering a few points I which to make :-
1) TTB did explain the losses in AXIATA in his AGM (those that attended the AGM would know).
2) ICAP did not buy AXIATA from the market. ICAP got the shares as a result of the spin off of CELCOM (AIXIATA) from TELEKOM.
3) Due to the rights issues call, ICAP decided not to take up the rights and decided to dispose the entire stake in AXIATA. TTB feels AXIATA might require further cash calls / funding in future for their expansion plan. Hence, ttb decided to sell and channel proceeds to another stock.
In fact, I found the Q&A with TTB during the AGM was really a wonderful open time where TTB shared some of his thoughts and reasonings.
I guess those that did not attend the AGM if you are shareholders really missed out.
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