Monday, August 17, 2009

iCapital Did Explain Why It Lost So Much Money In Axiata!

Hmmm.... :D

Got a new comment on an old posting: Are My Comments On iCapital Overdone?

  • invest said

    I tend to think your criticism on TTB is rather harsh and overdone considering a few points I which to make :-

    1) TTB did explain the losses in AXIATA in his AGM (those that attended the AGM would know).

    2) ICAP did not buy AXIATA from the market. ICAP got the shares as a result of the spin off of CELCOM (AIXIATA) from TELEKOM.

    3) Due to the rights issues call, ICAP decided not to take up the rights and decided to dispose the entire stake in AXIATA. TTB feels AXIATA might require further cash calls / funding in future for their expansion plan. Hence, ttb decided to sell and channel proceeds to another stock.

    In fact, I found the Q&A with TTB during the AGM was really a wonderful open time where TTB shared some of his thoughts and reasonings.

    I guess those that did not attend the AGM if you are shareholders really missed out.

Let me share some views again.

Firstly, many thanks for highlighting the fact that Mr.Tan did share with his loyal supporters on the massive losses iCapital suffered on Axiata.

Now perhaps let share with you my issue.

On the posting: http://whereiszemoola.blogspot.com/2009/06/icapital-lost-14-million-in-axiata.html

The following is the link to the screenshot I had posted on that posting: click here

In that quarterly earnings note, did iCapital explain why it sold? Did it? It did not and for me, it's in my flawed opinion, that it's unjustifiable that iCapital shareholders had to wait for the agm to discover if icapital will explain it losses or not! (In this case, iCapital did explain).

Why is it unjustifiable to wait? Well, iCapital.biz, is a traded entity. And the market, as you know, has it's own mindset. What if the market had sold iCapital down because of the losses? Would this be an impossible scenario? So why can't iCapital explain it losses in its earnings notes?

Is this such an impossible request?

To not explain in their earnings notes and to explain it only in the agm is like icapital telling their investors, 'hey we got huge losses in Axiata (14 million), you do not have to be worried for the next xxx of months. Just wait for my agm, then I will explain'. (In this case, icapital shareholder had to wait more than 2 months to find out the reasoning.)

Does that sound ridiculous?

For some, it does not but for some it's not only ridiculous but ludicrous! Reason? Lack of transparency and lack of respect to the investing public.

Now that was my point.

Did I blast iCapital for not explaining the Axiata loss in its AGM? No, I did not! My point from day one was that iCapital did not bother to explain its MASSIVE losses in its AGM. its quarterly earnings notes!

Regarding points 2 and 3. Thanks for highlighting this issue. Now if one wasn't a shareholder, would they have known? They would not yes?

And let's look at the reason why it sold its shares in Axiata.

Quote: "Due to the rights issues call, ICAP decided not to take up the rights and decided to dispose the entire stake in AXIATA. TTB feels AXIATA might require further cash calls / funding in future for their expansion plan. Hence, ttb decided to sell and channel proceeds to another stock. "

Now this is such a SIMPLE and ACCEPTABLE explanation, yes?

And if I had own Axiata, I might even consider selling based on the exact same reasoning. It was a simple and logical explanation. It's really a no brainer.

So why can't iCapital explain this simple reasoning to the investing public right after it sold it's shares in Axiata? Why did iCapital wait until the AGM (a couple of months later) only to explain what had happened?

Again, I ask, is such an action acceptable?

For me, I find it unacceptable.

Last but not least, if you think that I pointing out this issue as being overdone and harsh, well that's your right of opinion but I will not apologise for pointing out something that I clearly find as unacceptable.

Strange don't you think so?

Everything only wants to talk about the positive.

Those that point out the negatives are deemed as bad folks.

Hey, guess what? I do not have any problems with that. Serious! You see that's your right to only focus on the positives and ignore the negatives. Perhaps in this world, the negatives do not exist.



14 comments:

Moolah said...

ps: Just curious, if iCapital was not run by TTB and iCapital did not make the exlanation on their losses until the AGM, how would you really feel?

Moolah said...

ps: In the posting: "http://whereiszemoola.blogspot.com/2009/08/quick-look-at-icapitals-annual-2009.html"

In iCapital own words "For the financial year ending 31 May 2009, your Fund sold its entire holdings in Axiata Group Berhad (formerly known as TM International Berhad), VADS Berhad and Air Asia Berhad. These sales generated realised gains of RM221,146 with a cost of RM30.078 million."

These were the exact words printed in icap annual report.

Now I wonder.. Is that statement a fair representation of what had happened?

Or did the statement just gave an illusion that icap made a profit without those massive losses in Axiata?

Now by pointing this issue out, are my comments overdone? Harsh?

Harsh that I am pointing out what iCapital is doing is not right?

value investing in malaysia said...

relax moola. i think ur points are valid. keep up de great job! cheers!

invert, always invert!

Moolah said...

Actually I am rather relaxed at the moment.

:D

Unknown said...

End of the day, one has to see both sides of the coin....

You tend to only see one side...

U can criticise but I have never seen you give credit when it is due....or mayb you think he does not deserve any credit....sigh

Clement said...

I totally agreed with your view to disclose material events timely and appropriately. Those people who are living under denial are all ttb's diehard fans and worshiper. Perhaps their investment with ICAP went sour..tat's why the only way is to stay tune and worshipping till positive return.

Moolah said...

Hmmm...

Of course, it's always great to look at both sides of the coin.

Have I discredited iCapital for its performance as a fund?

Nope. I have not.

Now what about my side of the coin?
Are my issues on iCapital not valid at all?

Last year.. I do remember so well of the incident of Mr.TTB going on record in the local media that he was extremely bullish. But what did he do? He contradicted what he said by disposing shares worth some 50 million plus.

How does this reflect his integrity?

How?

So who is only looking at one side?

Is it me?

Sigh. Yeah.. look who is sighing.

You complain that I am only criticising. But what you ask yourself if there's any truth behind my criticism?

Unknown said...

The thing with most people in general is you can make 99 times good calls and then one or two bad calls, people will only remember the bad calls and never the good ones....

I agree TTB has made some bad calls but overall his good calls outnumbered his bad calls by far....

Anyway, I think we can debate on this and yet we will not agree...it's good to disagree sometimes...

Moolah said...

I am sorry but I do not understand your last comments.

What has this got to do with the right call or wrong call?

This is about him telling the market he was bullish but his fund contradicted his bullish comments by disposing shares by the truck load.

Was this correct?

....... anyway, take iCapital.biz the stock.

What is the stock main selling point?

I am sure many would point out that the answer is Mr.TTB.

Hey I would agree too.

But investing in a fund, the main selling point is the fund manager and more so, the integrity of the fund manager.

If no one questions what the fund does or the integrity of the fund manager and only focus on the end result, is there any risk in such a strategy?

Me? I do see one. I shall use Madoff as an the perfect example.

Do note that I am not insinuating Mr.TTB is like Bernie at all but isn't it better that the investor safeguard themselves by being more cautious?

Or should investors here just have blind faith on Mr.TTB?

Unknown said...

Well, that could many reasons why one would dispose shares even though one is still bullish.....

Well, to be an investor whether via a fund manager or directly in stocks, one needs to have faith in many things, i.e faith in the companies, faith in management, faith in a better tomorrow, faith that the economy will recover...etc

So, if one prefers to invest in a fund, of course one needs to have faith in the fund manager and the philosophy of investing of the fund manager...

Similarly, if one invests directly in stocks, one needs to have faith in the management of the companies too...

Moolah said...

WOW!

Are you saying where a fund manager can publicly tell everyone he is bullish when at the very same time, he's also selling the shares?

Gosh... no wonder there are folks who says the financial market is so messed up!

Moolah said...

How about this?

Imagine I am an investment advisor and also I manage a couple of funds. ( LOL! That would be one big joke. However, let's just let our imagination run wild. :P )

I make public recommendations that iCapital.biz (just a blunt stock example... lol.. if do not like this name, use ABC co, ok?) is an excellent stock to invest in.

However... behind everyone back, the funds that I manage, were selling iCapital.biz.

How?

How would you seriously rate my integrity?

Won't you be cursing me that my mouth said one thing but my hands and legs is doing the exact opposite?

Unknown said...

LOL !

If you're the advisor and fund manager, of course I would curse and scream....

Reputation, respect and leadership have to be earned, not by making comments on others....

Moolah said...

http://whereiszemoola.blogspot.com/2009/08/exemption-for-ttb-and-icapital.html